I was recently messaged by an man on OkC who was 53 years old. In case you need reference, that makes him over TWENTY years older than me. His "looking for" age bracket? 28-35. But since 28 is basically grown up, I can't condemn him for the same age gap insanity that I ranted about in last week's post.
So I saw his pictures and he seemed pretty young-looking - I honestly thought maybe his age was a typo, and he was 35, not 53. So, despite the temptation to respond to his initial message with "Dad, is that you?" I wrote back in a friendly way and asked if his age was for real. He said that it was. But that was not what took the OkCake. Here is his response, verbatim:
-------------------------------------------
Monday, November 21, 2011
Monday, November 14, 2011
Aim higher!
Nobody ever said online dating wasn't superficial. I, myself, have rejected potential suitors based only on their photos, or their height. I was oriented to OkCupid on the premise that it's like "a big online bar," and so I feel absolutely free to only consider men whom I would be attracted to in person. Physical compatibility is key to any healthy romantic relationship, and I know what wiggles my toes, thank you very much.
But there is one area where I think that many OkStupidmen are shooting themselves in the foot (or the appendage of your choice). It may seem irrelevant, and highly superficial, but the "looking for" age bracket is an area where snap decisions are made - and this is a part of your profile which, unlike your height or looks, you CAN control. Don't let your profile be rejected because of bad judgment here.
Age is a tricky one. Nobody wants to appear to be a cradlerobber - unless, of course, you are an OkCougar. Age boundaries don't really apply to hook-up-only dating; so, in this post, I'm exclusively talking about women and men who are looking for stable partnerships.
I know you don't need this cynic to tell you that there are different standards for men and women; Demi is still the talked-about (and now cheated-on) foil to the far-less-eyebrow-raising Catherine. It gets even more complicated when a man doesn't have kids yet, wants to have them, and wants to make sure his partner is able to. I respect that. But here are a couple of instances I object to, passionately (both representing an average of SEVERAL real men I have encountered):
OkStupidman A: is 32 and "looking for" 22-32 year olds.
OkStupidman B: is 34 and "looking for" 20-32 year olds.
All of the men with brackets like the ones above had "likes children" in the bio section of their profile, so I can only assume that they are all looking for women with whom they can have a family. But let me tell you - when I saw these age ranges, I ran away. This is a kind of superficial I just cannot tolerate in a partner.
Misters A and B need to read up on reproductive health. While it may be more difficult to get pregnant after 35, the real trouble doesn't start until after 40. Certainly 6-8 years is more than enough time to find a partner, establish a relationship, and get knocked up. So there's really no need to draw the line at your own age, or even younger ... seriously, Mr. B, you're 34 and you won't date a woman older than 32?? How many kids do you plan on having???
Now, I could be wrong, and it could have NOTHING to do with having OkBabies and everything to do with Misters A and B simply not wanting to date a woman older than them. Perhaps they have some quaint, old-fashioned idea that the man can be older, but not the woman. So, even back when they were 27 and still had all their hair - date a 28-year-old?? By heavens, no. She might be smarter than me. Or have more experience than me. Or ... have a whole one more candle on her birthday cake than me. And we all know how awkward it is when your partner has more ... wax?
I really have no way of knowing why these men don't want to date someone older than they are - whether it's because they're looking for farm-fresh eggs or wide-eyed innocence. But it's not even that part of things which really burns my cynical biscuits. You want your wife to be younger than 35 - fine. You even want her to be, simply, younger than you - I think that's disturbingly unmodern, but whatever.
It is, in all honesty, the BOTTOM end of their age range which convinces me that we would not be a good fit.
Twenty-two? TWENTY???!!! Do you, Okstupidman, REALLY think you could find a life partner in someone who has perhaps barely graduated college, had few (if any) serious relationships or experience in managing finances, who hasn't established herself professionally and still has so much to live and learn? Think about yourself when you were that age! Think about the growth you've experienced over the past decade! Do you really want to form a partnership with someone who hasn't found her feet under her as an adult, yet?
If you were 42 and she were 32, that would be one thing. You are both established grown-ups. And, yes, there may be a few exceptionally mature, grounded, adaptable young women out there who would make fantastic partners. But, categorically, the difference between 32 and 22 is so vast, that I can only conclude that any 32-year-old man "looking" to date a 22-year-old woman (again, categorically) has a tenuous grip on both reality and his own self-image.
What does that mean for you, Okstupidman who visits my profile, sends me a message, and never hears back? It means I have gone to your profile, seen that you are open to dating little girls who are barely old enough to drink, and said I can do better than someone who doesn't place a premium on having a partner with as much experience and seasoning as he himself has.
I TEACH university; I teach those 21 and 22 year-old-girls and believe me when I say that for all their lovely qualities, they are as yet unformed and undefined. They still need to grow up. You need to admit that you already have.
And even if you are unwilling to admit it - DON'T advertise it on your profile!! Stalk the profiles of women a decade younger than you if you must - perhaps you really think that panning for 22-year-old gold is a good use of your time. That is, of course, your business. But don't ADVERTISE it on your profile. All it does is make experienced women, like myself, recoil - and wonder about your sexual proficiency, self-esteem, and overall maturity. Whom are you trying to impress??
I hear your protest, Okstupidman - that you ARE confident in your personality, your prowess, and your prospects; that you're not trying to "impress" some easily-awed youngster, but, rather, to "improve your odds." I assure you, however, that you are in fact hurting them! First of all, you've probably discovered that trolling after the young'ns isn't yielding much luck in finding a compatible partner - so that's a poor use of your time. In fact, THEY might think it's just plain gross. And on top of that, when you contact us women closer to your own age, we won't have chance to discover all you have to offer when "what can you possibly SEE in a girl that age?" is all we're thinking. So, you're losing on both sides of your bracket.
You'll have way better luck if you AIM HIGHER, setting the lower end of your declared "looking for" age range to some reasonable number - I'd say no more than 5 or 6 years younger than you are. Maybe a slightly wider range if you're past 35. That way, you don't scare off the women your own age, and if you do contact a freshie here and there, she'll be flattered that you "made an exception." Win all around.
But there is one area where I think that many OkStupidmen are shooting themselves in the foot (or the appendage of your choice). It may seem irrelevant, and highly superficial, but the "looking for" age bracket is an area where snap decisions are made - and this is a part of your profile which, unlike your height or looks, you CAN control. Don't let your profile be rejected because of bad judgment here.
Age is a tricky one. Nobody wants to appear to be a cradlerobber - unless, of course, you are an OkCougar. Age boundaries don't really apply to hook-up-only dating; so, in this post, I'm exclusively talking about women and men who are looking for stable partnerships.
I know you don't need this cynic to tell you that there are different standards for men and women; Demi is still the talked-about (and now cheated-on) foil to the far-less-eyebrow-raising Catherine. It gets even more complicated when a man doesn't have kids yet, wants to have them, and wants to make sure his partner is able to. I respect that. But here are a couple of instances I object to, passionately (both representing an average of SEVERAL real men I have encountered):
OkStupidman A: is 32 and "looking for" 22-32 year olds.
OkStupidman B: is 34 and "looking for" 20-32 year olds.
All of the men with brackets like the ones above had "likes children" in the bio section of their profile, so I can only assume that they are all looking for women with whom they can have a family. But let me tell you - when I saw these age ranges, I ran away. This is a kind of superficial I just cannot tolerate in a partner.
Misters A and B need to read up on reproductive health. While it may be more difficult to get pregnant after 35, the real trouble doesn't start until after 40. Certainly 6-8 years is more than enough time to find a partner, establish a relationship, and get knocked up. So there's really no need to draw the line at your own age, or even younger ... seriously, Mr. B, you're 34 and you won't date a woman older than 32?? How many kids do you plan on having???
Now, I could be wrong, and it could have NOTHING to do with having OkBabies and everything to do with Misters A and B simply not wanting to date a woman older than them. Perhaps they have some quaint, old-fashioned idea that the man can be older, but not the woman. So, even back when they were 27 and still had all their hair - date a 28-year-old?? By heavens, no. She might be smarter than me. Or have more experience than me. Or ... have a whole one more candle on her birthday cake than me. And we all know how awkward it is when your partner has more ... wax?
I really have no way of knowing why these men don't want to date someone older than they are - whether it's because they're looking for farm-fresh eggs or wide-eyed innocence. But it's not even that part of things which really burns my cynical biscuits. You want your wife to be younger than 35 - fine. You even want her to be, simply, younger than you - I think that's disturbingly unmodern, but whatever.
It is, in all honesty, the BOTTOM end of their age range which convinces me that we would not be a good fit.
Twenty-two? TWENTY???!!! Do you, Okstupidman, REALLY think you could find a life partner in someone who has perhaps barely graduated college, had few (if any) serious relationships or experience in managing finances, who hasn't established herself professionally and still has so much to live and learn? Think about yourself when you were that age! Think about the growth you've experienced over the past decade! Do you really want to form a partnership with someone who hasn't found her feet under her as an adult, yet?
If you were 42 and she were 32, that would be one thing. You are both established grown-ups. And, yes, there may be a few exceptionally mature, grounded, adaptable young women out there who would make fantastic partners. But, categorically, the difference between 32 and 22 is so vast, that I can only conclude that any 32-year-old man "looking" to date a 22-year-old woman (again, categorically) has a tenuous grip on both reality and his own self-image.
What does that mean for you, Okstupidman who visits my profile, sends me a message, and never hears back? It means I have gone to your profile, seen that you are open to dating little girls who are barely old enough to drink, and said I can do better than someone who doesn't place a premium on having a partner with as much experience and seasoning as he himself has.
I TEACH university; I teach those 21 and 22 year-old-girls and believe me when I say that for all their lovely qualities, they are as yet unformed and undefined. They still need to grow up. You need to admit that you already have.
And even if you are unwilling to admit it - DON'T advertise it on your profile!! Stalk the profiles of women a decade younger than you if you must - perhaps you really think that panning for 22-year-old gold is a good use of your time. That is, of course, your business. But don't ADVERTISE it on your profile. All it does is make experienced women, like myself, recoil - and wonder about your sexual proficiency, self-esteem, and overall maturity. Whom are you trying to impress??
I hear your protest, Okstupidman - that you ARE confident in your personality, your prowess, and your prospects; that you're not trying to "impress" some easily-awed youngster, but, rather, to "improve your odds." I assure you, however, that you are in fact hurting them! First of all, you've probably discovered that trolling after the young'ns isn't yielding much luck in finding a compatible partner - so that's a poor use of your time. In fact, THEY might think it's just plain gross. And on top of that, when you contact us women closer to your own age, we won't have chance to discover all you have to offer when "what can you possibly SEE in a girl that age?" is all we're thinking. So, you're losing on both sides of your bracket.
You'll have way better luck if you AIM HIGHER, setting the lower end of your declared "looking for" age range to some reasonable number - I'd say no more than 5 or 6 years younger than you are. Maybe a slightly wider range if you're past 35. That way, you don't scare off the women your own age, and if you do contact a freshie here and there, she'll be flattered that you "made an exception." Win all around.
Monday, November 7, 2011
Customize!
My friend Cindy is the one who got me on OkCupid. She told me that OkCupid is basically like a huge bar where everyone is checking each other out. So, for her, when people view your profile, it's as if they "winked" at you from across the bar - hence the record of who has viewed your profile, so you can figure out if you'd like to "wink" back, or at least glance over. If you take turns visiting each other's profiles, it's as if you're exchanging smiles or playful glances. And, if you get a message, then it's as if someone tossed back a shot and came over to actually talk to you instead of doing the coulda-shoulda-forehead slap the next morning.
Hitting on someone in person is hard. You've got to check your personal grooming (Nothing in my teeth? Dragon-free breath? Is there TP on my shoe??), and then there's the approach - do you bump into them accidentally and comment on the crowd of people around you? Ask them what they're drinking? Lean over and say, "you are like the hottest person in here"? So, one would think that hitting on a person via email would be so much easier - plenty of time to craft something witty, plus the other person's profile - a convenient source of potential tidbits to mention in your initial email, to show them that you've done your homework and that you do in fact have something in common.
*Sigh* I have received some perfect messages, some of which I've answered, and others to which I haven't responded because I've clicked through and read their profiles or checked out their pictures and I don't feel an attraction. But they didn't shoot themselves in the foot with these generic come-ons (all copy-pasted from my real OkC inbox; there are dozens and dozens more but you'll get the picture):
"I like your pics and profile, want to chat sometime?"
"Just thought I would say hi"
"You look great"
"What do you do in your free time?"
"I enjoyed your profile and wanted to say hi. How was your weekend?"
"Hi there, you seem like a lovely person, how are you?"
"I like your page, how are you?"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Also useless are the canned messages where the person does nothing but talk about him/herself (only three here, since the last one is so long - but SO illlustrative!):
"Well I like live music, like to dance and like to boat in the summer time, I live on 2 acres right next to [InsertNameOfTown], do ya like Country living?"
"hey there sexy lady so i was wondering if you would be down to have a little casual fun with a younger guy" (see my post on Hunting an OkCougar)
"Ok... So Online dating is a fun concept in a perfect world but I know how this whole thing works in the real world. For one, you probably get 30 emails a day and who has time to read that many? It's luck of the draw at that point. On top of that I have to catch your eye with my pic first and then impress you with my profile before u even read my message, so therefore what I'm typing here is basically irrelevant because there's only like a 10% chance you're even reading this. However, if you ARE then go head and message back and let me know I have your attention. That way I'll know what I say here doesn't fall upon deaf ears, or "blind eyes" in this case ;). Even if you're not interested in me, at least let me know why. I'm always down for some constructive criticism when it comes to becoming a better, more desirable guy."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wait a second here! Isn't hitting on someone via email supposed to be easier and better than doing it in person? Doesn't online dating mean that someone who has contacted you has browsed carefully, and decided that there's something - physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual - that might connect themselves with you? Why, then, do all these messages SUCK?
If you are a single man on OkC, and wondering why nobody ever answers your messages, please allow me to give you a few tips on ...
HOW TO EXECUTE THE OKAPPROACH:
1) Avoid canned phrases about us. Demonstrate knowledge of your target's profile! Keeping it short and sweet is fine. The first set of examples above demonstrate that property. But there must be some mention of her profile, whether it's her love for coffee (often cited in more successful messages I've received), hobbies, or favorite movie - we are not in kindergarten anymore, and this is the kind of situation where you can't just "look at the pictures." I categorically refuse to visit the profile of any Okstupidman who has sent me such an impersonal, mass-distribution message.
2) Avoid canned phrases about yourself. We can read your profile just fine, so anything that you think is attractive enough to be routinely included into your approach messages should simply be a part of your profile. If you are going to talk about yourself, mention it in relation to HER. But under no circumstances should it sound copy-pasted.
3) Do keep it short. It's worth reiterating. Extensive discourses on your dating philosophy (yikes) and how "hard" it is to meet people online are both superfluous and off-putting. Show some confidence. Let your profile speak for itself; all your approach message has to do is get us there.
4) Only message someone ONCE. If they don't respond, it's because they didn't like your approach, or visited your profile, and didn't like what they saw or read. We don't need "reminders" that you're out there. If you're desperate to make sure you're on someone's radar, go ahead and visit their profile again. But, for the love of little arrows, avoid sequences like this:
OkStupidman: (via message) Hi there, I'm new to this whole online dating thing but you seem like fun, want to talk sometime? Over coffee, of course?
Me: (after clicking through, despite misgivings after seeing initial pic, but wanting to reward his knowledge of my profile) Don't like the profile, don't like the pics *silence*
OkStupidman: (via message) So, I noticed you had the chance to visit my profile, see anything you like?
Me: *silence*
OkStupidman: (via message) I know this whole online dating thing is hard, I feel like I can't express who I am on a computer, but it would be great to hear from you to see if we have any compatibility in person
Me: *silence*
OkStupidman: *sigh*
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, it is CREEPY to message someone more than once - allow their silence to speak for itself! It's like insistently staring down someone at a bar, who has already turned their back on you. Or coming up to someone, offering to buy them a drink, and having them roll their eyes and walk away. Would you continue pursuing that person IN person? Then don't do it on OkC!
Sometimes you'll follow all these guidelines, and not get messaged back. What gives? A lack of chemistry is what gives. I've written approach messages which have been witty, personal, and brief - seen my profile visited - and gotten no response. Who knows why? Maybe they weren't attracted to my pictures. Maybe the lack of high-risk sports on my profile put them off. Maybe any of a dozen things - sometimes people just don't click, and that's okay. But at least I know it wasn't my approach.
You should be able to have the same confidence. Customize your messages, and you'll get better responses - quality, not quantity, is what counts.
Hitting on someone in person is hard. You've got to check your personal grooming (Nothing in my teeth? Dragon-free breath? Is there TP on my shoe??), and then there's the approach - do you bump into them accidentally and comment on the crowd of people around you? Ask them what they're drinking? Lean over and say, "you are like the hottest person in here"? So, one would think that hitting on a person via email would be so much easier - plenty of time to craft something witty, plus the other person's profile - a convenient source of potential tidbits to mention in your initial email, to show them that you've done your homework and that you do in fact have something in common.
*Sigh* I have received some perfect messages, some of which I've answered, and others to which I haven't responded because I've clicked through and read their profiles or checked out their pictures and I don't feel an attraction. But they didn't shoot themselves in the foot with these generic come-ons (all copy-pasted from my real OkC inbox; there are dozens and dozens more but you'll get the picture):
"I like your pics and profile, want to chat sometime?"
"Just thought I would say hi"
"You look great"
"What do you do in your free time?"
"I enjoyed your profile and wanted to say hi. How was your weekend?"
"Hi there, you seem like a lovely person, how are you?"
"I like your page, how are you?"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Also useless are the canned messages where the person does nothing but talk about him/herself (only three here, since the last one is so long - but SO illlustrative!):
"Well I like live music, like to dance and like to boat in the summer time, I live on 2 acres right next to [InsertNameOfTown], do ya like Country living?"
"hey there sexy lady so i was wondering if you would be down to have a little casual fun with a younger guy" (see my post on Hunting an OkCougar)
"Ok... So Online dating is a fun concept in a perfect world but I know how this whole thing works in the real world. For one, you probably get 30 emails a day and who has time to read that many? It's luck of the draw at that point. On top of that I have to catch your eye with my pic first and then impress you with my profile before u even read my message, so therefore what I'm typing here is basically irrelevant because there's only like a 10% chance you're even reading this. However, if you ARE then go head and message back and let me know I have your attention. That way I'll know what I say here doesn't fall upon deaf ears, or "blind eyes" in this case ;). Even if you're not interested in me, at least let me know why. I'm always down for some constructive criticism when it comes to becoming a better, more desirable guy."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wait a second here! Isn't hitting on someone via email supposed to be easier and better than doing it in person? Doesn't online dating mean that someone who has contacted you has browsed carefully, and decided that there's something - physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual - that might connect themselves with you? Why, then, do all these messages SUCK?
If you are a single man on OkC, and wondering why nobody ever answers your messages, please allow me to give you a few tips on ...
HOW TO EXECUTE THE OKAPPROACH:
1) Avoid canned phrases about us. Demonstrate knowledge of your target's profile! Keeping it short and sweet is fine. The first set of examples above demonstrate that property. But there must be some mention of her profile, whether it's her love for coffee (often cited in more successful messages I've received), hobbies, or favorite movie - we are not in kindergarten anymore, and this is the kind of situation where you can't just "look at the pictures." I categorically refuse to visit the profile of any Okstupidman who has sent me such an impersonal, mass-distribution message.
2) Avoid canned phrases about yourself. We can read your profile just fine, so anything that you think is attractive enough to be routinely included into your approach messages should simply be a part of your profile. If you are going to talk about yourself, mention it in relation to HER. But under no circumstances should it sound copy-pasted.
3) Do keep it short. It's worth reiterating. Extensive discourses on your dating philosophy (yikes) and how "hard" it is to meet people online are both superfluous and off-putting. Show some confidence. Let your profile speak for itself; all your approach message has to do is get us there.
4) Only message someone ONCE. If they don't respond, it's because they didn't like your approach, or visited your profile, and didn't like what they saw or read. We don't need "reminders" that you're out there. If you're desperate to make sure you're on someone's radar, go ahead and visit their profile again. But, for the love of little arrows, avoid sequences like this:
OkStupidman: (via message) Hi there, I'm new to this whole online dating thing but you seem like fun, want to talk sometime? Over coffee, of course?
Me: (after clicking through, despite misgivings after seeing initial pic, but wanting to reward his knowledge of my profile) Don't like the profile, don't like the pics *silence*
OkStupidman: (via message) So, I noticed you had the chance to visit my profile, see anything you like?
Me: *silence*
OkStupidman: (via message) I know this whole online dating thing is hard, I feel like I can't express who I am on a computer, but it would be great to hear from you to see if we have any compatibility in person
Me: *silence*
OkStupidman: *sigh*
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, it is CREEPY to message someone more than once - allow their silence to speak for itself! It's like insistently staring down someone at a bar, who has already turned their back on you. Or coming up to someone, offering to buy them a drink, and having them roll their eyes and walk away. Would you continue pursuing that person IN person? Then don't do it on OkC!
Sometimes you'll follow all these guidelines, and not get messaged back. What gives? A lack of chemistry is what gives. I've written approach messages which have been witty, personal, and brief - seen my profile visited - and gotten no response. Who knows why? Maybe they weren't attracted to my pictures. Maybe the lack of high-risk sports on my profile put them off. Maybe any of a dozen things - sometimes people just don't click, and that's okay. But at least I know it wasn't my approach.
You should be able to have the same confidence. Customize your messages, and you'll get better responses - quality, not quantity, is what counts.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)